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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Holy One
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
226
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Posted - 2012.10.04 05:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Allow people to buy characters pre-trained with core skills for plex or isk. Most serious new players do this anyway cos lol18 months of training and effectively not playing the game appeals only to spergers. CCP should just man up and provide a way for hundreds of thousands more people to enjoy and grow this game instead of playing the another-alt-vicar bs game. |
Holy One
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Posted - 2012.10.30 11:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:I found being a new player, that PvP was more boring than PvE.
Tackling isn't so fun.
wow srsly? after like 8 years I find the only fun things left are doomsdays and stilettos! |
Holy One
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Posted - 2012.10.30 11:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Legion wrote:This is a topic which we have extensively discussed within CCP and we are well aware of the problems new players face when coming in. Unfortunately there is no simple and easy fix for this. It is a long term project which has received some more love recently. We just improved the tutorial over the summer and Retribution will improve a lot of the in space UI to make it more intuitive for new players and there will also be changes to the corporation search window. We are still going to do some improvements to the tutorial and its content beyond Retribution. We will continue to make everything easier for new players to understand and via that reduce the need for extensive tutorials. As many of you have pointed out, the tutorial is only a part of the new player experience and we are not only looking at that. What exactly will happen is yet to be determined, but a lot of the topics covered in this thread have been discussed internally and your opinions are definitely heard, so keep them coming :)
look at why you have so many pointless core skills which could be consolidated or reduced in rating to enable faster spec'ing for t2 frigates and t1 cruisers.
right now its almost FOUR MONTHS IN +4'S to even get in to a useful t2 frigate. |
Holy One
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Posted - 2012.10.30 11:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Serf of Hurlbat wrote:Let's take a look a Goonswarm. Of all the alliances, Goons (possibly TEST as well) have an extremely high percentage of subscribed new players which actually remain active past the two-month milestone. Why is this? In my opinion, it is because that recruits in many of the 0.0 alliances get involved in alliance operations on day one - there is a very positive attitude to getting people involved ASAP.
no its because they come from pre-established communities with pre-established social ties and common interests and are not only encouraged but welcomed to participate fully in all operations from day one. the free stuff helps too. |
Holy One
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Posted - 2012.10.30 13:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:The reason 8/10 people leave in the first month is because they are too cheap to pay for an account after their trial ends. Holy One wrote:
look at why you have so many pointless core skills which could be consolidated or reduced in rating to enable faster spec'ing for t2 frigates and t1 cruisers.
right now its almost FOUR MONTHS IN +4'S to even get in to a useful t2 frigate.
Yes, because a condor/slasher/executioner/atron with a T1 MWD and T1 disruptor isn't useful right!?!? You don't need to be in a T2 ship to contribute to a fleet you just need to choose a role that doesn't involve dealing DPS or tanking. Namely ewar support, which takes a miniscule amount of time to get into. If you want to do solo stuff, join RvB and fight other newbies that you can find. Nano ships work too, it takes 3 hours from your character's creation to be able to use T2 nanos.
correct. they're utterly useless. except for making pounces for the fleet. the lack of mwd bloom bonus makes them utterly useless for tackling anything. perhaps in 2003 when tundragon played eve.. as for rvb. lol. thats just station games and spergers. |
Holy One
240
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Posted - 2012.10.30 14:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:i actually think the highest frustration comes from having so few skillpoints
the old system where you started with much more points but slower skilling was much better i think
how about the tutorial and player orientation missions giving skillpoints ? so that a new player could end up with having about 2-3 million SP after doing them ? paired with a massively increased skillpoint gain from passive skilling up to maybe 10 million SP (tied to the clone grade ?)
and yes ccp really derped when they removed learning but ALSO removed the 100% skill training bonus many new players absolutely relied on to maintain their interest past a week or sitting around waiting for skills to train.
I mean for the love of god, it still takes like 2 days to train racial frigate and supports to 3 to use a rifter with a mse, t1 guns and a mwd. why?? fact is this game would be way way more popular if they just removed half the low level and core fitting skills and made it about what you do, in the sandbox, not what you wait months to be confused and disappointed by. in fact they'd probably sell a hell of a lot more plex if the game was more accessible form day 1. |
Holy One
241
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Posted - 2012.10.30 14:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:CCP Sisyphus wrote:Thanks for the feedback - all this is VERY interesting for me :)
Keep the experiences with new players flowing. I especially want to hear from less experienced players (few months) as to what were the bits that caused greatest frustration.. Level 4 frigate skills to train cruisers. New players who are running missions will be ready to start level 2 missions on about their second or third day of playing.
"Hi! Welcome to Eve Online, here's what you want to do, here's what we're going to let you do in 27 days 6 hrs and 10 mins. Go **** yourself!"
Every new player should spend their first month in eve worrying about social aspects and exploring the niches instead of worrying about fittings, isk and replacement rifters. Thats one of the reasons why SA is so successful with retention. They remove all that hassle and let players get out to null on day 2 and start participating.
My advice to CCP? Consolidate all racial t1 frigates in to one skill. Consolidate all racial t1 turrets in to 1 skill. Go back to giving players basic drone and fitting skills from day one. Provide say 250-500k sp already allocated in core areas pertaining to common frigate fittings and applications. Give the 100% skill boost back. Have tutorial agents provide free and t1 fitted replacement frigates to those who choose war academy career paths. Along with suggestions on tackling, understanding transversal and angular velocity, sig blooms and fall off. Give them missions that show how effective combined fire is, tutor them in the basics of swarming and alpha and the real threat posed by ECM. Give them the idea they can band together in a wolf pack and bring down stuff.
Stop punishing people for pvping in low sec ie get rid of the sec status system that forces people to grind horrible pve to pvp. Sort out jump clone timers. Get rid of the punitive and stupid clone upgrading system. And now the biggie: get an official kill board, EveMon and EFT integrated in to your game or officially support and push these essential 3rd party applications.
Provide a reason for new players to co-operate in a safe environment: make level 1 and 2 missions intelligent enough to know when groups have entered and adapt accordingly the rewards and the risk. The relationships casually formed on day 1 in eve can last forever and thats the whole IDEA of this mmo right? Make high sec safe and reduce it in size.
So much could be done. Personally I would remove all skills training requirements for t1 frigates and industrials. Entirely. T2 modules and weapons systems obv would remain the same.
The first thing I did when I joined Eve in hour one day one was realize I couldn't fly anything and nobody was interested in talking to me or working with me, and there was no reason to even want to do so. There was literally nothing happening I could participate in and nobody to form a bond with. Thats your fatal flaw right there. Its not like you need to be a genius to know that this game is a sum total of the social ties you build and is literally horribly boring and empty without them. Address this and you'll start to attract more normally adjusted people that want to generate content and be sociable and less isolationist pve grinding spergers. |
Holy One
241
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Posted - 2012.10.30 14:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Holy One wrote:There was literally nothing happening I could participate in and nobody to form a bond with. Thats your fatal flaw right there There are some very good training corps in high-sec who recruit new players and teach them a lot about the game. Perhaps new players should be placed into these corps instead of NPC corps from the moment they start playing.
Well player run organizations can't have that much power, but essentially yes. The idea is:
1. Remove the avalanche that CCP dumps on new players heads
2. Provide enough SP and as little skill micro managing and training overhead as possible to facilitate fun pve and pvp play from second 1 day 1.
3. Facilitate the formation of social bonds and ties and ensure a smooth transition from overwhelmed but stimulated in to sure and certain active subscrption.
Less pertinent from my pov, but clearly from ccp's, get them to start a second account ASAP.  |
Holy One
241
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Posted - 2012.10.30 14:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sarlot wrote:Quote:So much could be done. Personally I would remove all skills training requirements for t1 frigates and industrials. Why stop there? Why not just get rid of all skill points entirely and turn Eve into a FPS which, though not explicit, seems to be what you are saying in all your posts.
The real time skill training system has a very valid and fun role to play in Eve long term. Short term it is nothing but a hinderance to their business model. Also, quite frankly, advocating something as obvious as removing the insane block on active participation at the onset of a new player experience is not only sound business sense its essential for real growth. Not just more alts.
Hysterical over-reactions such as yours on this point just smack of 'I've hoarded my sp! My precious!' and aren't really fair comment on what I am advocating.
Eve needs skill training. It doesn't need literally months of waiting to access core content like interceptors and t2 frigs and the amazing new op t1 cruisers. The 'character focussing and career progression' stuff shouldn't even be something you have to worry about below 3m sp imho. Provide as few dead ends (lol armor tanking) as possible and maximise the amount of content new players can access. Its just like top loading interest on a loan - you need to get people hooked before you clobber them with the grind.
Also, lets be very clear on this, providing new players with the tools to generate a lot more content much faster does not by any stretch of the imagination mean they will. Its not giving them an advantage, because experience and knowledge are way more valuable. All you are doing is making sure they have enough to keep them hooked and dont hit a wall of boredom prematurely. |
Holy One
241
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Posted - 2012.10.30 15:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sarlot wrote:Quote:Hysterical over-reactions such as yours on this point just smack of 'I've hoarded my sp! My precious!' and aren't really fair comment on what I am advocating. I've read most of your posts and your argument is remarkably similar to the old tirade against learning skills several years ago. Removing learning skills was supposed to be the magic wand that allowed new players to begin playing the 'real' game sooner. Always when it comes to new player rentention the old trope of, "it takes too long to get to do the fun stuff" is bandied about and skill training is always made the culprit. Removing learning skills didn't change anything and reducing skill training time even further than they already have will not change anything either. Some players,myself included, enjoy the slow progression the skill system provides. What is the real problem for the instant gratification crowd, that every game maker wants so badly to retain, is the lack of a sense of advancement primarily in PvE. This has nothing to do with skill points and everything to do with the fact that Eve has never really had PvE. Mining, manufacturing et all. is really crafting in any other mmo and Eve does it the best. A progressive PvE background (which does not mean less skill training time) akin to what original mmo's had is what will retain new players. Add the sandbox element to that and you've got a combo that is simply not available from any other mmo out there.
Eve is not the skill training system tho. I agree the sense of progression is great long term and its really nerdy gratification to have. But. I don't buy the argument that removing skills from eve would have any effect other than to promote rapid growth in subscribers. I've played the precursor mmos to eve, notably Diaspora which placed limits solely on your wealth not on arbitrary standards. Thats a sandbox imho. The idea being you are not designing a pretty spreadsheet, but defining a legend based on personality and wealth.
Right now new players have two actual choices and one sensible one: they can grind for months and not play the game much at all beyond low level pve. Or they can buy a character and get stuck in to what they actually want to do. I would like to see a stronger argument for actually creating and training a character yourself. If you take most null sec corp requirements for new recruits to heart - 10m sp - you can see the obvious problem. You aren't useful to anyone with less than 10m sp. You are only useful within a tightly defined framework of new player support which only pre-established communities can and by and large are able to provide. Thats bad and entirely uneccessary.
I don't want to turn this thread in to an argument for or against skill training anyway. Its not something I would like to see removed from Eve! I would just like to see it become something you take on board at a later stage of your new player experience. I remember running out of content in about 12 hrs when I started in 2004. I quit. I came back out of pure boredom (broken foot) and was able to start a character with pre-allocated skill points. That was great. I think CCP needs to decide if they want 20k more subs or they want to carry on stacking a house of cards around multiple subscriptions per user. Which, personally speaking, I think is folly and makes the game far too sterile, fragile and hostile to change long term. |
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Holy One
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Posted - 2012.11.17 16:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Its ok guys, CCP have finally solved the problem. After tens of hours of development they came up with .. a 90 minute wall of text. |
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